Online Poker is Rigged.
Online poker is rigged and I have the proof. The problem with my evidence is that it resides only in my mind.
This problem has ruined the game for me. At least the online aspect of it. You see it doesn’t matter if I am right or wrong. It only matters what I believe and perceive. The possibility of being cheated is always in the back of my mind. Am I sitting at a table with a team of players? Did that guy just dump his chips to a friend? Am I playing in a tournament where some people have 3 or 4 entries going? Is the site itself cheating me? The answer is almost always at some point.. YES. Call me paranoid but just look at some of the scandals that have rocked the online community over the last couple of years. Absolute Poker, JJ Prodigy, WCOOP Main Event winner, & Justin Bonomo come to mind right away. These are just the bigger stories that made the headlines. How many other cases go unknown and unreported? I am going to say the problem is rampant. And you can bet the target games are the lower limits… While it may seem like the higher limits are the smarter targets.. They aren’t. The higher you go in limits on any site the chances you have at running into the same players. They are too smart at that level and it wouldn’t take long to pick up on it. The lower limits are filled with average people having fun and not paying attention. It just makes sense. The games we play in are polluted.
I think we can now compare cheating in poker to cheating in baseball. Jose Canseco came out a few years ago on the problem of steroids in the MLB. At the time you had everyone from high profile players to the commissioner himself denying there was a problem. Nobody cared. We figured there was something going on but no where near the scandal we have today. Slowly over the years things start to come out. Suddenly it’s gone from just 1 or 2 players… to a handful…. to an all-star at every position! At least 1 player from every team is cheating!
How many of you have ever received a refund from a poker room after they have discovered cheating during a game/tournament you have played in? I have and more than once. We have only begun to scratch the surface of problems that plague online poker. And nothing is being done about it. Sure you have a few people who continue to keep the stories in the public eye, but as a whole it doesn’t matter.
Here we sit a few months out from the Absolute scandal and what actions have been taken by Kahnawake Gaming Commission? None. The investigation is still “ongoing”. Come on! It isn’t like they have a lot of work to do. I suspect it will remain “ongoing” for a long long time. They need distance between the event and the penalty. After all, Kahnawake has stake in Absolute.. The penalty is going to be laughable. Just like the penalty was against Golden Palace Casino for the stunt they pulled at the 2004 Olympic Games. Golden was supposed to never partake in that kind of advertising and make a “donation” to the commission. Yet they did the same thing again in the 2006 Winter games without penalty.
Having Kahnawake regulate online gaming is like having put the Mafia in charge of John Gotti’s trial. Other than one other penalty against Golden Palace there has been no action taken by the commission against any online gaming entity that I am aware of. I guess all other sites have been completely problem free over the years and the poker sites have spotless records. Do they ever do any investigating of claims? Has anyone asked Kahnawake to open their own records? I mean after all, this commission is THE name in online gaming regulation. The idea is, we see that symbol and we are supposed to think, “ok this site must be safe, Kahnawake is on the watch!” When in reality they will grant any shmo with 10 grand a license to run an online gaming outlet, while they sit back do nothing and collect. Who is regulating the regulators?! And it makes no difference what they do when the penalties are minor and non-criminal. In my mind the KGC is a scam/fraud and should be investigated by our FBI and Canadian authorities. Oh wait.. Indians… damn..
I like to think there are a few sites out there where we can feel safe but the truth is, the popular sites are probably the worst. The more people you have the harder it becomes to watch for cheating. Now there is even some stink being made about suspicious play on Ultimate Bet. I hope that from now on the “poker media” does a little better of a job than they have been doing. Because it really seems like there are no journalists covering the game only writers and gossipers. There is no hard-hitting investigative reporting happening whatsoever. Nobody is “breaking” any big news or having whistle blowers approach them. Maybe because the poker media is made up of poker players.. Who knows…
Where there is money to be had, will always be groups of people trying to manipulate the system. And these are not stupid people. The cheaters are some of the smartest people on the planet. It should really alarm us when the only people who have been caught are mental midgets.. Justin Bonomo, JJ Prodigy, both those guys are complete idiots. But Potripper by far is the moron poster boy. He could have still been using his method to cheat players out of millions. One only has to be reminded of the real schemes that have brought their participants the most money. ie. The M.I.T. Blackjack team. Now I don’t consider the MIT team cheaters.. It is just an example of what happens when you get smart people who like money…together. Online gaming is the perfect target for this type of activity and I think it is more the norm rather than isolated incidents.
Congress needs to get off their asses. It makes absolutely no sense why the US is allowing BILLIONS of dollars to flow untaxed into the hands of possible criminals. Just think what that money could be doing for various social programs. Now I am not saying that US regulation will stop cheating but it will at least allow for a transparent system. One where reputable American companies can set up shop and be regulated by our laws. How nice would it be to load up the Caesars Palace poker room on your computer? If something like the Absolute scandal were to ever happen under US regulation, you could bet someone would be going to jail. And these scandals would make real news.
I know there are those of you who will say the same thing about live poker. Teams are not a new thing, nor is chip dumping. But at least I have the potential cheater in front of me and I can look him/her in the eye. And I certainly don’t worry that the casino itself is cheating me. Until real regulation, how can I enjoy playing or ever feel that I am getting a truly fair online game? I can’t. You see my dilemma? The power of the mind is pretty strong.
There is no question that you are being cheated when you play online poker… the only question is by who and when…. Will it be the room, the players, or both? And would you ever know?
- Frank
Sat-4:24 am EDIT: It appears as if the “investigation” into the Absolute scandal has been completed as of yesterday. I was unware of this as I posted my rant. But just as I suspected it is a total joke. Slap on the wrist and more money in the pockets of the Kahnawake commission. Sickening.
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January 11th, 2008 at 2:53 am
Well, thank you for the cartoon at least whilst you make us wait
January 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Freezing my antes off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 14th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Collusion is a problem, but not as big as “inflation” and “insiders”. Its really simple. They inflate the hands so that people play more, get more excited and bet more, and so the percentages get screwed. AA vs any random hand (say 72) should be about 87% vs 12%, but in online games its about 65% vs 35%. Every hand has about 3 times more chances to hit compared to real life game. Lets say youll hit a straight 1 every 100 hands in real life (dont know the real odds) in online gaming youll get a straight 1 every 33 hands! but chances are also “triplified” that it wont be good to win!. Insiders are people who play for the company, to keep things running smoothly, to detect collusion, and to get more money, sure why not. I dont know if websites let u win for a while if u deposit cause ive never done that, all my online bankroll started from freerolls. Im still looking for a fair place to play, but guess itll never happen.
August 9th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
If online poker were reputable, the B&M giants like Caesars and MGM would put up their own sites and back the necessary legislation to legallize the money-transfer laws that currently are hindering the US players. They know there are just too many problems with cheating, collusion, and randon number generators, and thus they want nothing to do with online poker.
September 12th, 2008 at 6:00 am
I think you guys are right about online poker…….I think we have a situation here where online sites are not “rigged for any particular individual, but rigged in general for “action” or what they call “juiced”. Now I have been playing online for years, admittedly….and I’m not a bad player at all. A matter of fact I consider myself a decent player…Like many other students of the game, I consider myself well read in poker theory, odds, strategies, etc. The one thing that we can’t forget is that the online poker websites make tons of money and that by “rigging” the lower limits for action they generate more excitement, this tends to bring players back to play again. The other side of the coin is that it is impossible to PROVE that it is rigged, and the owners of these online sites know this……so its a perfect situation for them…they know they have somehow juiced the program ( even in the slightest way ), they can keep raking in the money without fear that they would be discovered. Again if they can slightly modify ( juice ) the programs, they could achieve their results monetarily and at the same time avoid the possibility of detection. Another justification they give is the ” more hands per hour” reason which is valid, but herein lies the problem ” by telling players they play more hands per hour, it in fact gives total COVER or false justification for the countless and endless suck outs, bad beats and miracle hands that in my experience still seem to happen much too often than coincidence. But again …people tell me…” Oh no…its just your imagination…..your too paranoid”……. It is truly the perfect scheme to play….juice the hands for increased action, knowing that no one can prove your cheating…..the perfect SCHEME……On a personal note ( my opinion )
I think that the juicing happens primarily at the low limits like one of the posters said earlier …I agree totally with that. The possible reasoning for this is that they don’t want to lose their higher limit players because they naturally bring in a higher rake. Ive learned a few lessons in life and one of them is that wherever money is involved….never rule out the presence of corruption…and online poker is no exception.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:13 am
hell yes online poker is rigged, i agree its not rigged for any one player, but only to a point, if you own a site and i work for you and i get into a tourny or a cash game and have knowledge of the cards and such, how much do i win for your site and collect my say 20%, but i agree that the average smuck gets no advantage, other than dragging a pot to keep him paying the rake, ever notice that in a cash game and a idiot player thats dumped his money hand after hand will hit a monster just as hes about to go broke?? to keep him playing and paying the rake, personally on ultimate bet and pokerstars at any all in, (and these # taken over a 2 year period) i have the best hand 98% of the time and lose with it 96% of the time, sorry but these #s dont add up, in my opinion, playing online poker is like watching a poker highlight reel, hand after hand of monsters and outragous bad beats, poker is not a half court jumper at the buzzer, at least its not suppost to be
November 24th, 2008 at 1:13 am
Online poker would make them the same amount of money whether the action was, “juiced,” or not. That’s a completely stupid idea. They have nothing to gain.
The rake for each pot is capped. The more hands that get played, the more they make. Hands with lots of action take longer. Therefore, lot’s of action would LOSE them money.
The best way for them to, “juice” the system would be to somehow make the pre-flop action make the pot big enough for max rake, then have a bet and everyone else fold on the flop.
If you think the poker sites have any advantage in rigging these games in any way, you don’t understand the industry. Also, it’s impossible to keep stuff like this under wraps. Someone would’ve talked, especially if every site were doing it. That’s too many people involved for it to be kept quiet.
p.s. “Low limits have more ridiculous action and suckouts.” Duh.
December 11th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
I know for a fact its juiced. I’ve actually talked with some of the programmers, and yes they have told me its to keep people coming back. Someone pointed out in this article about the all-in wins and such. Every time I go all-in with A-K, K-K, A-A, someone will call with a garbage hand like K-J not suited, and hit. And if your a new player to the game watch the first day you play, you will win most of your hands, and suck out just as bad as the next person. But the next day, everything you gained, will probably disappear with bad beats. I tested this theory probably 35 times, with a number of new accounts, I’m a pretty good player, been known to win most multi-table tournys, or at least place in almost every one I’ve entered. I’ve had my share of bad beats, but nothing like this. I wish someone would come up with a better random generated system, cause this one is shit.
December 13th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
online poker is rigged. ive played far too many games online and have seen countless suckouts, not to mention the amount of times ive rec’d quads and a straight flush in the same day.lol. its a flawed algorithm…and yes i agree with ygafc, fresh players with fresh deposits always seem to win simply because pstars or whoever it is wants to get them back and get them addicted. i think they control cashflow and how much u win through ip addresses. it is a flawed algorithm. nevertheless there are many idiots to be taking advantage of, which makes it somewhat profitable. i think the only way to combat the rig is either colluding yourself, or play multiple games at a time.
January 10th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Well guys you are all right,I have been playing and dealing poker for 38 years now.I can tell you without a doubt that online poker sites are all cheats,each and every one of them.The game you see online is a farce,nowhere near honest.You have all them guys like Bill rini who works for full tilt going all over the Internet saying prove it,were all babies and bad players,wheres are hand histories.All this amounts to crap,just like a politician.Online poker is about as honest as rob blagojevich,the govenor of ILL.Why do they cheat?If they did not all the good players would bust the bad players and they would have about 80% less people playing.They have to protect the weak or the party is over and they know it.I have had a standing offer for 4 years now and cant find anybody to take it.All these people who stick up for online poker will not take my offer,why is that.My offer is this,come play poker on my computer and log 100 hours of any level you want.at the end of the 100 hours whatever you lost online you ahve to give me 5 times the amount,whatever you ahve won online I will give you 10 times the amount,sounds like a great deal to me all you backers of online poker.the only requirment is you play on my computer.I will give anybody that deal including any pro who may want to try.why do they cheat people,because they can..The Indian gaming comission that regulates them is a joke,you dont think they are on the take?Guys its all a setup to take your money,please please please dont play..Guys I know several groups of guys at the casino I work for who sit at home with headsets on and run over the games.They are the least of your worries..Nice post Frank,I hope we can keep a few people from palying anyway..
Joe
January 10th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
yeah it is rigged but it is still fun to play. anecdoteally i have won alot of money playing but that was about 2 years ago. maybe it was because i played alot loser and i was constantly sucking out on people. now i just go all in with qq and lose to qj or aa and lose to 85. it is pretty sick how often the worst hand wins in pre flop all ins.
it seems to me if the website wanted to prove it was legit all it had to do was keep track of preflop all ins and see if the best hand did win the percentages it was supposed to win.
it just does not seem to me i win with premium hands enough to keep wanting to play them. i dont get excited when i see aa or kk anymore i just think about how i am going to lose.
January 16th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
please we need to sue them. someone help.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:31 am
Frank – Contact me please…
“xfilespoker” on the forum
I think something can be done..
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:43 pm
The ones who claim that on line poker isn’t rigged, and that we’re just a bunch of sore losers who cannot play poker, are the real losers. It is so obvious to anyone with the slightest mathematical sense that on line poker is rigged. There are imho two ways (maybe more) the poker sites (read pokerstars imc) rig the game: Favourising the new/bad players and favourising the bigstack.
I am not a poker pro and will probably (for sure) never be, but in 2007 and 2008 my officialpokerrankings stats have put me in the top 2% and 9% respectively, so I know how to play poker and have a nice financial supplement to my steady job income. However, in 2006 when I started playing poker, I didn’t have a clue when it comes to playing poker. Even so I managed to boost my initial $100 deposit up to an “impressive” $1800 bankroll in less than two weeks – playing $22 sng’s. I thought: Wow, what will this come to, this is so easy. I just couldn’t lose. A week later it was all gone.
I have reviewed some of my earliest hand histories, and I am truly amazed. 1. I play so bad, 2. I get dealt incredible hands, 3. I suck out big time. AA eight times in my first three sit’n'go’s, runner runner straights/flushes, smaller pairs that crack overpairs. I could hardly lose a hand if my life depended on it. I had no concept of poker, but I thought I was sooo good.
Therefore the downfall hit me so much harder. I wasn’t dealt all those great hands anymore. My A7 didn’t suck out on AK. And my pre flop all ins with pocket threes didn’t seem to work anymore. The fact is: I was lured into the intizing world of on line poker. And my slump was just bad luck, I was sure.
I was almost $4000 down until I had learnt enough basic poker strategy and until i started breaking even.
My point is: The poker sites give you every possible advantage you can think of when you start playing, so that you wont lose everything immediately and quit the game for good. You have felt the sweetness of winning, and you’ll keep on playing even though the harsh realities of your real poker skills eventually strike you. Of course the advantage given to the beginner isn’t restricted to that. The genuine poker donk who hasn’t got a clue has to get some aid cardwise in order for him to fell that he still has game.
Next endgame/bubble play your aces are beaten by a pot committed player with T4os look up your opponent’s stats. 9/10 times he is a big time losing player. Yeah yeah, I know pocket aces aren’t unbeatable, but when it happens too often, there is a pattern. In a recent sng I was all in 11 times (3-handed and in the money) vs. one particular player. All coinflips with noone more than 60% favourite. I lost all of them! I know that stranger things have happened, but added to the fact that he had absolutely no idea of how to play poker, and that he had sucked out throughout the tourney, it seems strange. He was in the bottom five percent on opr, but Pokerstars had decided that he was to win now – at any cost. Now you ask yourself how I could lose eleven all ins. Well, he was so weak/tight that I stole his blinds with any hand, and he only called me when he had a decent hand or when his stack forced him to call.
Letting the big stack win: Well, the sorry people (and/or poker site employees) who claim that poker isn’t rigged always argue that there is no reason to do it. They say that favourising the big stack will eliminate the small stack who will leave the table and thus wont pay rake anymore. That may be true when it comes to ring games – I am not a cash game player, but in sng’s and mtt’s there is every reason to get people eliminated as fast as possible. The more players who exit the tourneys asap the more players will enter new tourneys.
I know that regulars at Stars know what I’m talking about. It is unbelievable the amount of bad beats you are delt by the big stack if you are short.
Other strange things happen at Pokerstars. In a recent mtt, I wasn’t dealt an ace in 72 (seventytwo!) hands. Not ONE single ace. I dont know the probability of that happening, but I’ll suppose it’s 1/xxxxx. Yeah now give me your arguement that we play a lot of hands on line, so we can’t compare it to brm poker. Rubbish! Improbabilities that you wont see in a lifetime of playing live poker won’t become probable just because you play more hands per hour on line. I don’t multitable and I don’t play 20-30 hours a week, but I have seen enough weird stuff to last me a lifetime.
Why don’t you just stop playing on line if it is so rigged? Well, I make money nevertheless. Just not as much as I should.
Mark my words: In less than two years one or more of the biggest poker sites will be scandalised because their randon nummer generator will be exposed as not being so random anyway.
Ps. I have flopped five royal flushes in three years of playing. Pretty good huh? Possible – yes, probable – no!
Pps. Please don’t give me your variance nonsense. Yes, variance is for real, and it’s cruel, but the obvious cheating at pokerstars has nothing whatsoever to do with variance. The sad thing is that now I’ll get flamed by ignorants, people with no understanding of numbers and probabilities, players who wish to believe and pokerstars employees.
GG GL
January 23rd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I have to agree with you guys, this shit is rigged.
In 2007 I was in the top 97% of online poker players according to the various websites out there. I played on Pokerstars in tournamnets only, and did really well. My biggest win as a $13000 first place in the $50K ($55 entry) gaurntee. the next day I won a 6 handed table tournamnet for another $3,000.
My point? In 2007 I was a great player.
2007 ended with a few more small tournament wins in Dec of 2007, all in the $500-$1000 range.
2008 happens, and it all goes up in smoke.
2008 was an ENDLESS… ENDLESS parade of Suckouts, uncanny, unreal shit that you should see once a year was happening every day, every week, every month.
At first I thought it was just bad luck, maybe I was “due”. but it went on, and on and on. In real life games I did ok, I played in event #27 in the WSOP in 2008, and did ok, didnt make the money, but I won my SNG satelite to get in, and lost because of nervousness and making a dumb mistake, NOT because of suckouts.
As 2008 continued into fall, and then winter, the suckout parade continued.
When I say suckouts, I dont mean someone hitting their 12 outters on the river, I mean 1-3 out hits 5-7% shots… OVER.. and OVER… and OVER.
Finall I said fuck it, left PS, switched to Full-Tilt 3 weeks ago.
The bullshit suckouts have continued unabated. Now if I get AA or KK preflop, I expect to lose to the donk who just called my AI iwth Q-10 off, and I usually do.
I went from a 97% player in 2007 to a 40% player in 2008. NOTHING changed in my game, if anything it probably got a little better.
Now, in January 2009, I’m probably in the bottom 20%.
Something is fishy in online poker, either that or I am (we are) the most unlucky sons of bitches in the world, and have been for at least a year.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Well guys its good to see a few people who see what I have seen online,as I have stated above I have been in the game for 38 years and can tell you online poker is far from real..you can tell me about variance,more hands,hand histories,plain and simple,you are not getting random cards period.I wish it was for real believe me.Play at home in a big easychair,switch games anytime you want,switch levels,tourneys at your fingertips, a dream.Let me pose this questions in hopes for the future,If the U.S. made it legal and let U.S. casinos open online sites, have it regulated by the feds,would we get an honest game and random cards,is it possible?
Joey Z
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
BY THE WAY,NICE POST FORD!
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Papa, if it were regulated I believe the games would be legit.
But until then, no way.
I’ve saved all my history files from one month of FT play, I would love to get these imported into a DB and have some analysis run on all the suckouts. I tried by hand with excel, but it would be a HUGE undertaking.
But this is the answer, if all the players on these piece of shit sites imported their hand histories, and if it were proven that 5-7% suckouts happen about half the time, or even 1/3 of the time, then that cinches it right there.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
IT HAPPEND FOR THE 3RD TIME…over pr vs under pr, i hit my set on the flop, and they get turn river quads. only this last time it was a lil diff cause he had the set on the flop as well, but he just rivered me. now this has happened to me 3 times, and i have yet to do this to someone. are they rigging my ip addy or what….please someone wtf is going on. is this not proof its rigged?
February 16th, 2009 at 7:46 am
shrimp,
As much as I hate to say it,3 hands are not enough to base anything on.I can assure you that you are being cheated and that online poker is not an honest game.they cheat cause they can and they know their game could be over at anytime.All we need is the U.S. to make it legal and it will be bye bye poker stars.they will go belly up along with all the other sites that are out there right now.So we still have to put on our pants and drive to our local casino if we want a fair game…
March 10th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Hi guys, It’s good to see so many people on here that are right on the mark. I’ve been playing online now for the past 6 years, and live for the past 10. I always had a feeling about the sites rigging for action and stuff, but kept playing thinking I could maybe learn the proper strategy for online. To this date I am probably about a 13k loser online. Anyway I have been done with it for some time and then my friend tempted me to play around on Poker Stars. As usual I deposited 100 played 10 cent 25 cent No Limit ring games. First two nights wasn’t getting anything major, just an even distribute of my fair share. I made 80 bucks, Day 3 comes around and just like always, I suddenly hit a brick wall. Now some might say oh variance..it’s just variance, I say really? always just like that huh? play a solid game for two days then have my pocket kings run over 4 times, pocket queens another time.. 2 pair crushed.. and the list goes on. I actually was in such aww about this whole thing that I had to get my hand history. I think It’s just a total of about 200 hands, but why is it that this always seems to be the way? What I saw happening to me today I have never seen in my ten years of playing both live and online, best one was this hand. I’m playing short handed 6 pple, I’m dealt pocket aces on the button, everyone folds around seat 5 raises.. i reraise.. he calls.. flop comes xxj.. he leads out, once again I raise.. turn comes another jack… now I’m nervous..prob has A-J just made trips…anyway he checks gives me a free card and low and be hold and ace falls on the river…he bets..i raise..he’s all in..I call…he’s got 4 jacks…I’m sitting there holding my balls with a full house aces full of jacks..Now obviously this could very well happen in a live game as well..my point here is that all the sickest of the sick bad beats I have ever seen in my life all happened to me today, and I have the hand historys to prove it. I have never run so bad EVER, I really don’t see how it is possible for the so called online variance to always hit shortly after a deposit and if that is true that it is just variance because of so many hands being played, well then why doesn’t it seem to level itself out again? after all your playing so many hands the variance should come and go quicky, but your skill should still prevail. Anyway I know variance to be true, as I have had my bad runs and beats through out the 10 years of live playing, but this is totally unreal. I’m done pipe dreaming about having the luxury of playing from the comfort of my own home and will be back to playing strictly live at the casinos. I could vent forever about the BS that happens online as I have 6 years experience from it, I only wish I had all my hand historys to plug in to some data. Anyway good luck to all, I sincerely wish the best to anyone who is truly making it online, and to the others like myself, well we always have the live games we can still crush.
March 15th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
We have all been ripped off. It is extremely obvious. No one in the US gov gives a crap. Indian tribes are to moniter them but they are part of it. The only way around it is to quit playing online.
The people who way in at these sites about how we are all just parinoid lossers are employeed by the sites.
If you have played live for many years and now try online, most notice the bs right away and some take years to realize we are all being ripped off.
Its not about action cards either, it is simply a computer program that takes money from real depositors while favoring house and site programed players.
This goes on at every table on every site.
Lets look at Jokerstars, there are more players at pokerstars than all the other sites added together (who accept Americans). Some are catching up by adding the filter programs and house and programed players. Many of the other sites have been caught and exposed for cheating.
The only legitimate sites for Americans are the ones that quit accepting Americans when our authorities threatened them. They are the ones that are not overseen by indian tribes but are regulated by their governments (thats why they were/are fair) I used to almost make a living at Party Poker and Bet365 Poker. I only lose constantly at the remaining sites. I’ve tried them all until I see the filters and have no more options so I dont play online ever anymore.
The US government should complete the job of shutting these online sites down for Americans who cant stop. It is their job, why arent they completing the shut down. Write your representatives your stories about being ripped off and maybe they will finish the job.
I guess it would be too easy for them to simply tell the internet service providers to stop their transmissions.
Oh well, maybe Ill see you at the honest, live games soon!!!!!!!!!!!
March 21st, 2009 at 2:29 pm
100% Rigged… And I consider myself a poker GENIUS! 150 IQ mathmatical genius, I understand the game like einstein understood theory.
March 24th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
the algorithm is flawed. why cant they see this. why wont any pros come out and say its rigged.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
also its really weird but it seems when i would withdraw i would lose some, but after a deposit they let me win, to get me suckd in . look up my stats on dr sayis on pstars, can you see when i deposited last, lol.
April 5th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
I HAVE PLAYED ON FULL TILT FOR ALMOST 4YRS IT SEEMS WHEN I MAKE A DEP. I GET SOME REAL GOOD LUCK BUT IT THEN FADES I HAVE READ BOOKS 2 NO MY MATH PREETY GOODHAHA I PLAY TNYS MOSTLY WITHSOME SUCCESS MY STATS ARE ON ONLINE RANKINGS RECNTLY I HAVE MADE BIG BETS OR ALLINS AND BEEN CALLAD WITH UNDERS OR SOME CRAP HAND I AM LOSING WITH THESE AT 70% CLIP AND GET CALLED WHENTHEY JHAVE UNDERS THEY ALWAS SUCK OUT IWONT PLAY ON FT ANY MORE THE RNG IS FALSE IM NOT WORRIED ABOUT COLLUSION AND I KNOW U LOSE TO BAD PLAYERS SOMETIMES BUT 70% THATS BULL
April 19th, 2009 at 6:51 am
Well, up until 6 months ago I wold have said you guys were nuts. I too, started off hot on on line poker, now, a good week is grinding at the 8-18 limit h/l tables and being up 600.00, and a bad day is being down $600.00!
Little about myself. Without going into names, me and 2 of my buddies have been traveling, playing dif. casinos for about 1 1/2 now. We are all “winning players” even tho I carry most the load. They play tournies and NLHE were I stick to the biggest Omaha H/L cash games I can find (with 1 cash at the 2008 wsop pot limit o-8 game). I’ve been consistanly making money for 4 years playing poker, so no one can say I’m just a losing player.
Back to the story at hand, how can I make 90k+ a year playing live poker with real players, and be down 10k a year playing with people who don’t have a clue online? The people I lose to are not winning players, they cap the rake and get lucky to be even or up alittle everyday. They chase gutshots on flushed boareds and will call off their stack for runner low for half the pot, and always get rewarded. “How is this profitable for the site” some ask, easy, if the bad players were not alloud to win more than their fair share of times, they wouldn’t play! I’m not talking about losing to a 80/20 situation 1 out of 4 times. I;m talking about them getting in 6-1 or worse, and winning 3 of 7 times, to keep them in the game. Then when the stack me, my intial response “I’m better than them, it eventually has to work out, numbers don’t lie”. So I buy back in. Only thing is, for the last 6 months in particular, the numbers have lied, BIG.
If only good/winning players played online, there would be 7,000 at a time on full tilt, not 70,000! Thats why its worth it for them to minipulate the system.
Why did I not want to give my name or screen name. My buddies and I pull cash games and sit and goes when one or all of us have lite rolls online, and if 3 guys that make 185k+ a year playing live have to cheat at a 33.00 sng, something is wrong.
May 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Well nice to see a few guys with brains,big poker 1 you are 100% right.I wrote a very similar blog awhile back.If they don’t protect the weak their business is cut by 80% plain and simple.Ive dealt poker most of my life and now run a poker room and what comes out of my computer in no way resembles what takes place at my tables.I have been on a site called two plus two arguing with all them geniuses, but all they do is insult you because they have no idea.I am starting to think that it is the young guys who like to argue in defense of the sites because they don’t have anywhere near enough hours logged live to see the difference.these sites no it can be over any minutes and they are there to rape and pilage period..SORRY GUYS,WISE UP!
June 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Good read, interesting stuff.
August 7th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I agree. Logic dictates that if I had a poker site with one player depositing $100 a week, and another player depositing only $10 per, then I’d want to stack the deck to keep the big money coming in. But, you wrote: “It makes absolutely no sense why the US is allowing BILLIONS of dollars to flow untaxed into the hands of possible criminals.” Tell me, have you ever played at pureplay.com? It’s out of Delaware and it’s the worst site on the net. Played hard there for a solid year and yeilded $ZERO! Fared not much better at other sites, but have won SOMETHING: pennies, a few dollars, and recently $200. No, judging by the lottery in my own state, the U.S. poker sites would be the most corrupt in the world.
August 11th, 2009 at 10:36 am
I am beginning to see the light finally. I have played solid poker online for 3 years. I have blamed my losses and variance and tilt. This last month on full tilt I believe showed me the truth. I went all in 7 times with KK versus AQ or AK and lost every one. I lost about 90% of my 50/50 situations, ie. QQ v. AK or vice versa. I kept trying to tell myself it is just bad variance, but I can’t convince myself of that anymore. My SNGs went horrible as well. About every slight favorite situation I was in I lost. When the small blind went all in with 2-6 against my AK and won, as a 2 hit, I think was my turning point. I put 600$ in about 2 months ago, built it up to 31K, then lost it all. I know I lost it all while playing solid poker at reasonable limits. I love playing poker, but i cant deny the truth any longer.
August 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
you guys are wrong, its not rigged. most of you just need to understand the game a bit more.
August 15th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
are people really this stupid? i guess that’s why it’s so easy to make money at poker, online and live.
what’s even more stupid than thinking online poker is rigged? thinking online poker is rigged and continuing to play!
donks ftw.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:31 am
If online poker really was rigged, it wouldn’t be so easy to beat. You can tell that some of the people that commented on this thread have helped me and others like me fund the roof over my head.
August 16th, 2009 at 8:07 am
and Jennifear.. How do we know you are not one of them!!
August 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
The arguments used to support the validity of online poker are not good. They say the sites make so much money, why would they get greedy? Do I really need to answer this? Never underestimate human greed. Witness wallstreet. Also, they say there are consistent winners, like say, durr, phil ivey, leatherass, etc. Well, doesn’t it make sense for the sites to create consistent winners so that these winners will then serve as advertisement that poker is fair and the best players win?
One day, when online poker is exposed as the farce that it is, I would like all the poker jackasses who were unknowingly propped up by the sites to return the money.
G
August 27th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
After reading Paul Westin’s ‘Online Poker Code Crack’ I agree the sites are rigged. But as he points out, it is rigged toward certain players to win, if you look at the algorithms he discusses and the software he reveals, you can see why these people win and how they are doing it.
Rigged? YES! but not the way you think!
I recommend reading for any serious online poker player…
August 28th, 2009 at 8:24 am
it is def rigged, i know alot of people say we’re just sore losers, but no that’s not the case. i play in real life and online and there’s no comparison. bad beats happen, yes, but not that ofter. alot of people say well, its because you play way more hands online in an hour than you do real life. wake up! when i first started playin online i couldnt lose. no matter what i had. but im a fairly good player. after puttin in a lil real money couldnt catch a hand to save my life, and it was like taunting me! back to back aa, kk, ak, etc. even hitting on the flop. but i didnt go all ape sh**. bet like i should of, kept getting suck out, even betting hard to make em fold, but oh no, the fish kept on calling with crap hands and hittin. it’s rigged people. listen to your gut. stick to real life tourneys if your half way any good.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:37 am
Greg and Ted are right about the rigged stuff, it just seems somedays you can’t win a pot to save your life and other days you win every single hand.
I sat in a tourney and doubled doubled doubled from $4K to almost $70K inside of ten hands. That is hardly possible in a live tourney!
There is something funny going on and Ted I did read Paul Westin’s Online Poker Code Crack, I think his program is right on target.
The sites are def. rigged!
October 16th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Poker is def. rigged. For example, if you play heads up sng tourneys… watch the all in bets cause, it’s always a drama board and usually the worst hand sucks out or makes an incredible hand. It’s so ridiculous these sites still are so poorly regulated. I for one know what it is to win at first and lose to bad players who make ridiculous hands. Oh, and forget about BJ, it is the most rigged game there is even though they claim they use the same number generator. Please do not donate your money to these sites. You may win in at first but will lose most if not all of your profits due to their software. They have statistics on every user and deal cards accordingly. Believe it… it’s true. I would say Ultimate Bet is up there with the worst. If you choose to play online poker which highly don’t recommend, please stay away from Ultimate Bet.
November 28th, 2009 at 12:31 am
A few years ago no one wanted to hear to these arguments. Many still don’t now, but far more folks are speaking out having had the same experiences. The algorythms are most intelligent in that they try to even out the percentages later so things are hard to quantify with a small sample size. Those who have tried to keep stats did it by hand, and stats seem to reveal a slight skew in favor of underdog hands on all-in hands.
The rationale for this is to keep more players around longer. No-limit hold’em historically suffered an early death before, as all the bad players were busted out around 30 years ago. Online poker can’t afford that, and a stacked deck is the answer.
It’s also very likely that not all the possible decks (a very large number) are being dealt out, with an emphasis given to decks that produce more action.
In Sit-n-go’s and tourneys at a particular site, it seems everyone by now has noticed that the bigger stack wins a disproportionate amount of times, sometimes with the worst of hands. I’ve seen people saying they call with random hands because they know they’re big favorites no matter what when they have big stacks.
I can also attest that new players also get blessed with unbelievable hands and unfathomable luck. If a player withdraws too much of his winnings, he’ll be punished and could even give it all back in losses if he’s not careful and stops playing for a while. Only a programmer would understand it’s not that hard to tag specific players to win or lose more in order to even things out. A player slated to lose would receive the most adverse luck no matter how good or bad the starting hands.
All of this has also been noted by others here.
December 12th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Reading through these comments has brought me feelings of content and happiness because it’s like reading an auto-biography of myself and my pokerstars experience if i were to write one. You all are pristinely on the money. Thank you so much. And by the way, for anyone who’s been ripped off to no end by pokerstars I’d highly recommend Full Tilt. The action flops, suckouts, and ridiculous bad beats are still there, but in much less abundance and it seems to reward you for good plays and punish you for bad ones. Still rigged; not what poker is all about, but good enough. At least it’s fair.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:39 am
Ok guys, i’ve been playing online poker for like 5 years now and my conclusion is that is totally rigged. It is impossible to win at online poker if you don’t know RNG. This guys that win constantly at online poker big tournaments, they have to know something. I believe that is all bout the RNG. I’m from Latin America and i also play at my local casino, with lot of tourists and very different players in all tourneys. I’ve managed to cash a lot of times, i mean lot and at online poker it seems to be harder. Not because of the amount players because that s irrelevant, its all about the structure of the tournament. With a good tournament structure, good knowledge about odds, good reads, the true random factor of the cards and agressiveness you can win constantly (Thanks to online poker rooms being rigged i studied more of course). I consider the ”winners” in online poker, scammers, they just figured out the algorithm of the RNG of course, they have studied it. And they are cashing BIG on it. I personally know one player that is awful at live play but he managed to win the SUNDAY MILLION and he’s been cashing for about 2 years now on a regular basis. Just check the pocket fives site and you will see this, they are always the same players but you don’t see them winning constantly in live play. Few of them won major tournaments but its only because some of them are very smart and studied before they figured out how online poker works. Yesterday and today i saw, in 6 times in different tables I was playing on, Four of a kind been made with one holding card and the other three of them on the flop. I dont know about the odds of that happening, it has to be hard for that to happen. Actually in live play ive seen that happen only once or twice in my life, and ive played as many hands as in online poker. Because of us player, this BILLIONAIRE companies will be unmasked soon, not because they want to cheat us, they actually didnt know that at the begginig. They not even know the growth online poker was going to have by this time now. Its because of the profits they make, they want to keep this as a secret and they wont be able to keep doing this for long time. And no, we wont be able to claim our money, theres only not enough to compensate everyone. So just as me, not play at any poker site until they actually fixed that issue. Or if you want try to figure out the shit for yourself or ask any ”winner” too see if they will tell something you dont know and maybe cash BIG as they do.
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:02 am
For the longest time, I’ve suspected that online poker, especially at the lower limits, is “fixed” towards less than optimal players. And while I don’t believe it is, well this hand today definitely has me raising questions. The thing is this player was playing perfectly normal the whole game, solid OVR considering the stakes and game we were playing, as the 1st few hands of playing 3 handed got going. Then the below happened…
Full Tilt Poker Game #18118402490: $1.50+$0.20 Sit&Go (Sup Turbo) (137010913), Table 1 – 30/60 – No Limit Hold’em – 10:21:22 ET – 2010/02/02
Seat 1: MrPinkX (570)
Seat 6: kracy49 (895)
Seat 7: SavageChrist (1,235)
SavageChrist posts the small blind of 30
MrPinkX posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SavageChrist [Jd Jc]
kracy49 raises to 895, and is all in
SavageChrist calls 865
MrPinkX folds
kracy49 shows [4h Ks]
SavageChrist shows [Jd Jc]
*** FLOP *** [6s Kd 3s]
*** TURN *** [6s Kd 3s] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [6s Kd 3s Kh] [5h]
kracy49 shows three of a kind, Kings
SavageChrist shows two pair, Kings and Jacks
kracy49 wins the pot (1,850) with three of a kind, Kings
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,850 | Rake 0
Board: [6s Kd 3s Kh 5h]
Seat 1: MrPinkX (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: kracy49 (button) showed [4h Ks] and won (1,850) with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 7: SavageChrist (small blind) showed [Jd Jc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Tell me of 1 online player that would open shove K4o with >10 BB’s 3 handed, and from 1st to act also in those particular game and stakes. I know no1 would do that live, especially with lots of time left to play, whether it be for small stakes, or WSOP glory. Yes, I’ll gladly take JJ all day vs K4o preflop, but that’s not the point here. And don’t scream variance either, because this was way out of the blue for the player to do what they did in the above HH. Someone would only do that, IMO, if they knew what was coming, AND knew I was going to get dealt a hand to good to fold such as the JJ to call that massive donkey shove pre flop.
Never in all my time playing those crazy STSNG’s have I seen anyone play that stupid preflop, and get rewarded for it. And it was totally unneccesary for him to do what he did at that stage of the SNG. I swear, 1/2 the time it seems, people plays these whack hands that they do, and its like they know what’s coming, hence why they treat it like AA, KK, etc. And before I get flamed, yes I know it was a $1.70 SNG, but its all I can play now as I try to build up from very little. It’s $hit like this that keeps me from ever wanting to deposit on these sites for significant $ again, where as I can buy $10 here and there from friends as I try to build up from those. Plus I don’t have to pay all of the darn deposit fees since the US player’s options are so limited now. I remember when I could put in with my Debit Card, then when that avenue got blocked, it was epassporte, then when that got blocked, bank CC, and now that that’s blocked, I haven’t put another dime in since…
I’ve also noticed many “pattern hands” myself, along with the “cash out curse” and the run of good fortune when you put $ in / open an account for the 1st time, and immediate also. And seeing how there are many others who noticed these same things that I did, makes me not so paranoid then…
So is it rigged? I honestly do not know, although at times it does have that “feel” of manipulation, whether it be good or bad. It’ll be interesting to see what is unearthed down the road.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
I LOL at the peeps who cannot see it is clearly rigged.
It surely IS random. Random WITHIN a set of given parameters. Those parameters are primarily redistribution of funds.
The more the money in the site is redistributed, the more it is played, the more rake is taken. It’s simple.
That’s why when nearing the bubble in MTT’s and specially SnG’s that take longer than normal you will see the usual increase in pocket hole cards. This, obviously is to thin the field, award the prizes, and get everyone back to playing more tournaments/ring games etc…
Also, shaving 10% off the time it takes to finish a tournament shaves 10% off the cost of data hosting those tournaments. No point in wasting traffic costs when the money has already been made.
These sites have NO legal obligations whatsoever to you, and you have NO legal recourse.
Slot machines are random – but within set parameters, they obviously have to make a profit, which they do, a percentage at a time. Overall, slots payout big and small, but always remain a winner, the standard house edge.
Pokerstars is the same. It’s random within a set of parameters. There is no house edge at Pokerstars, just the rake. And the redistribution of funds is primarily achieved through action flops/drama boards.
It’s JUST like slot machines.
Stars and Tilt are set to redistribute funds. It’s up to us to capitalise on this, and the better players do.
Chris Ferguson even set up the Full Tilt Poker Academy to show you exactly how to play to minimise loss/maximise profit during chip redistribution. He actually tells/shows you how to play to suit the redistribution algorithm at FullTilt and come out ahead.
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